In my writing I'm currently creating a couple of characters. She's a submissive type although she doesn't really quite understand that yet. I pretty much know this character (!) so I don't have much work to do on her.
She's met a man who's actually a really nice guy. He's sweet; romantic; caring; kind. Initially, she was incensed and aroused by this man all at the one moment. He displayed a truck-load of arrogance towards her initially and it made her angry (and hot!). Oh God, but I don't have to explain that to readers in this forum, do I?
However, as she'll come to understand he's also other things as well and only time will tell if he's the man for her.
Now, I've taken a look at a few online quizzes to try to think through my thoughts about this male character and it turns out that he is rather high on the scale of narcissism. That's a bit of a dilemma for me as the writer because first and foremost he's really a very good and well meaning man. I hold onto that central fact as I write and I definitely don't want to let it go. I'm working on the basis that you can be a good man with a tendency to narcissism at one and the same time. Put it this way. He's a good guy with flaws and he's trying to overcome some of those flaws whilst seeing others of them as strengths which he doesn't intend to do anything about.
Are you still with me?
Right. So, let's look at his traits. He has a strong sense of entitlement. As an example, he might say to himself, "I insist upon getting the respect that is due to me." He would not say, "I usually get the respect that I deserve". Do you see the difference here?
He is exploitative. This is a given. My god, did he exploit her when they met! Whoa! He really deserved a smack across the mouth but you see, she didn't do that. She was up for the game. That's how he knew she was for him. He'd respond to the question, "I find it easy to manipulate people" and not "I don't like it when I find myself manipulating people." So, definitely exploitative.
He's superior. He would say, "I think I am a special person" and not "I am no better or worse than most people."
He's self-sufficient. He will answer, "I can live my life any way I want" and not "People can't always live their lives in terms of what they want."
He's authoritative. He will answer, "People always seems to recognize my authority" and not "Being an authority figure doesn't mean that much to me."
So, what do you think? Can you be high on the scale of narcissism and still likable; lovable; right for this sweet girl??
What's that? You don't think she is a perfect little angel either????
Well, we'll just have to wait and see about that. I am, after all, the one writing this story!
She's met a man who's actually a really nice guy. He's sweet; romantic; caring; kind. Initially, she was incensed and aroused by this man all at the one moment. He displayed a truck-load of arrogance towards her initially and it made her angry (and hot!). Oh God, but I don't have to explain that to readers in this forum, do I?
However, as she'll come to understand he's also other things as well and only time will tell if he's the man for her.
Now, I've taken a look at a few online quizzes to try to think through my thoughts about this male character and it turns out that he is rather high on the scale of narcissism. That's a bit of a dilemma for me as the writer because first and foremost he's really a very good and well meaning man. I hold onto that central fact as I write and I definitely don't want to let it go. I'm working on the basis that you can be a good man with a tendency to narcissism at one and the same time. Put it this way. He's a good guy with flaws and he's trying to overcome some of those flaws whilst seeing others of them as strengths which he doesn't intend to do anything about.
Are you still with me?
Right. So, let's look at his traits. He has a strong sense of entitlement. As an example, he might say to himself, "I insist upon getting the respect that is due to me." He would not say, "I usually get the respect that I deserve". Do you see the difference here?
He is exploitative. This is a given. My god, did he exploit her when they met! Whoa! He really deserved a smack across the mouth but you see, she didn't do that. She was up for the game. That's how he knew she was for him. He'd respond to the question, "I find it easy to manipulate people" and not "I don't like it when I find myself manipulating people." So, definitely exploitative.
He's superior. He would say, "I think I am a special person" and not "I am no better or worse than most people."
He's self-sufficient. He will answer, "I can live my life any way I want" and not "People can't always live their lives in terms of what they want."
He's authoritative. He will answer, "People always seems to recognize my authority" and not "Being an authority figure doesn't mean that much to me."
So, what do you think? Can you be high on the scale of narcissism and still likable; lovable; right for this sweet girl??
What's that? You don't think she is a perfect little angel either????
Well, we'll just have to wait and see about that. I am, after all, the one writing this story!
To your first example trait: respect must always be earned in all aspects of life. It is never a right. Only an ass would insist that respect is naturally owed to them. Indeed to do so undermines the very foundation respect is built upon.
ReplyDeleteThis is squarely in the category of "flaw" rather than strength and likely to work to his detriment in the long run.
Perhaps this can be a thread in your storyline?
Yep, I definitely think he can be narcissistic and still likeable. I hate when the heros are too perfect-- everyone has a flaw, right?
ReplyDeleteBTW, where do you take online quizzes about your characters?
Can't wait to read how it all turns out! :)
rollymo: Yes, good point. I see what you are saying. It's something I intend to explore within his character. He has in his conscious mind that he should respect people and as well, that he deserves their respect in return. He's all for good manners and watching words. On a more primal or sub-conscious level, he has this sense of role: that he is in charge and that respect is due to him based on that role and that goes beyond his behavior. It allows for some aberrant behaviour.It's that bit of a sense of 'entitlement' that keeps things rather formalized.
ReplyDeleteIs that a flaw? Well, maybe not necessarily. Perhaps she is going to need that bit of order and structure. There is a love component here but he needs to make it clear in his own way that he's in charge. Maybe this is the way he chooses to do that.
reneerose: Yes, I agree. Actually, it was Remittance Girl that really got me going with this idea of exploring flaws in some detail. I haven't been able to get the idea out of my head. We do, most certainly, all have flaws. Even Mother Theresa probably annoyed someone with some habit.
ReplyDeleteIn this case I just typed into the Google search 'Test for Narcissism'.
Ahh, I see your point. He expects obedience and deference to the authority of his role. And courtesy and civility. A little like military rank; a private may not respect the sergeant as a man but knows his place in the established pecking order and therefore the appropriate means of behavior toward him. Respect for the man comes later, if and when the sergeant proves his worth.
ReplyDeleterollymo: Yes, that's the idea.
ReplyDeleteVesta
ReplyDeleteOh the comments I could make upon said fictitious male character. *winking* As I am certain you know my answer I shall still give it to you: I think it is highly doubtful such a character could provide a healthy, nurturing environment for a relationship to flourish in a positive manner. Oh he would be fun short term but in the long run his narcissism would most likely produce an abusive exchange. I like the fantasy though. :)
xx
~a
goodgirl: Well, I hope he'll come out of this all right. He has led her into this situation and it's up to him to play his part and do the right thing by her. He stumbles at time, for sure, but I do hope he doesn't fall. (Who knows until it is all written? Certainly not me.)
ReplyDeleteMy answer is yes think he can be narcissistic and still likeable but I think it depends on how deep the narcissism runs.
ReplyDeleteI think you need to find better quizzes! There is room for a lot of improvement between the choices you had.. also - the main problem with narcissists is that they're pretty much unable to care for anyone besides themselves. Not a Really great thing for a romantic hero..
ReplyDeleteJust my humble opinion..
mia
dancingbarez: Maybe, it just shows up in random, intermittent ways, or when he is playing with her sometimes, or maybe he just needs have the odd "unleashing the beast" moment. Not all the time. That would be too much. Yes, I still think his good side could prevail. And, maybe she doesn't mind seeing the beast at times...
ReplyDeletemia: Yes, loads of room between those answers. Lots of grey area to play with and that's where I think I need to be exploring. And, if all he can care about is himself, well, he won't be able to keep her, for sure. She's interested in exploring the dark side but she doesn't want to live in the dark.
Can one be a narcssist and truly care for others? Can one be a part-time narcissist by letting out the beast on occasion? I'm not at all convinced... but hey, this is for a work of fiction, not real life. We would probably all agree that someone with these traits would truly suck as a partner, but that's why fantasy is so wonderful - we can skate over those aspects.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking forward to reading the finished work.
rollymo: In my latest (kinky) journal I just wrote down a quote I read on a site:
ReplyDelete"Psychological distress results from a perceived lack of respect and appreciation in a relationship."
So, yes, if a partner was narcissistic whereby respect and appreciation of the other was absent, that would suck. I've started the story with him as a man who knows how to influence a girl. He's been rather devious in that he's used her vulnerability to charm/lack of charm (it's a combination of those) to woo her. He's won her over, but there's a luuuuuuung way to go. There's an element of selfishness going on here. He wants what he wants and she will need to provide it. But, I just don't think I could write the man as being someone who doesn't care for her. He cares immensely. He's actually very sensitive himself.
I've really appreciated people's responses. It's helped me clarify my thoughts.
Hmmm....interesting.
ReplyDeleteIf you actually look at the medical definition of 'narcissistic' then I don't think for one moment that someone with those traits would make for a good leader or a satisfactory relationship.
However, there are on occasions traits which can only be defined really by their usage and outcome. For example one may be very self assured and yet without arrogance. On the surface however one may appear as the other.
The manipulation of people for example can occur in many ways, some good, some bad. For example, suppose I wanted to help someone solve their own problem. I may well ask them various reflective questions that enable them to see where set actions are likely to lead. I already know the answer and I know what their answers to given questions will be. That's manipulative, but of course it is the most effective way for them to learn.
Training in one way or another is about manipulation, the question is are they being trained to be something they want to be. In the above instance that would mean capable of answering their own question in a lucid and logical fashion.
Just my thought obviously.
Anon: I agree that "manipulation" can be good or bad, based on motivations and that to some extent, "the end justifies the means" in terms of training, given that a girl wants to get to a certain end. In the case of someone who borders on narcissistic, they may well have difficulty in understanding what the girl is going through in the tough patches. I'm currently working on role-playing in terms of character development and I wonder how much the narcissist can understand what the girl may be going through at certain times. He has a tendency to experience his own feelings so intensely (to be very sensitive) but not so well able to walk in another person's shoes; to see the world through their eyes. I think that could make it hard for her because although his intentions may well be very honorable, any perceived slight could be overwhelming for him. A girl in such a predicament walks a fine line with grenades all about her. The trick could very well become for each to understand the sensitivities of the other and to trust each other. Ultimately, that's the huge challenge here; not to go underground but to recognize that they are both intrinsically good and capable of good; flawed but very worthy.
ReplyDelete