I am noticing that there is a bit of a movement towards the idea that 'equality' is not the perfect and harmonious state it was cracked up to be. Instead of believing, for example, that partners in a marriage or in a relationship need to be equal, there are more people talking about embracing the differences - in skills, in ability, in knowledge and in the desire and ability to lead.
Of course, it is clear that I have come at this from the point of view that I am the one happy to be led. I don't want to be the boss. I think that is clear. Yet, I do do some things better than my husband. For example, I am better with routine and order on a day by day and every day and every year basis. I take responsibility for establishing the routine for the children, for the meals, for the social calender, for present buying and putting out the garbage. On the whole, things that need to be done repetitively don't entice my husband and they are better left to me. He doesn't want to do them so it works for both of us. The only proviso I would note is that he doesn't waste time telling me if he doesn't like the way I happen to do one of those tasks. If he thinks I haven't stacked the dishwasher the best possible way, he tells me. If he thinks the dogs need washing, he tells me. Like that.
Of course, we are not in the majority here. A lot of men don't (want to) take the lead and even if they did, they don't necessariy have wives or girlfriends or partners that would agree to this. Most people have areas of disagreement and they sort that out the best way they can. Sometimes, the only way to sort that out is to agree never to see one another again. Or, they meet somewhere in the middle. Or, they both remain frustrated with one another. There are any number of outcomes for these power struggles.
I am in contact right now with a woman who is very interested in promoting women led relationships. She feels that power struggles may result in a couple agreeing that the woman should take the lead; that 'equality' is not the solution necessarily. She is thinking here of women who are particularly competent; perfectly capable of running the show and she wonders out loud about this. Are there not men who secretly would love to hand the reins over to their wives; to pay the bills; make the decisions, arrange the party and the annual holiday; even make the sexual advances??
For my husband and I it will always be a bit of a blend. He's happy not to be responsible for various decisions, so long as I decide things in a way that he would agree with, and that I consult him when I am not certain about that. He knows, for example, that I might buy a platter without consulting him because he trusts my taste. He knows that I will not buy an expensive work of art without him because that has always been a decision we have discussed together first.
When I look around at the marriages I know, it really does seem like a lot of men are happy for their wives to take the lead. Or, they are frightened of them. I have considered this theory quite carefully and I think for many men, this is the case.
But, putting aside the techicalities for a minute and just staying with the basic theory...this notion of all people being equal is a bit simplistic, don't you think? Of course, we are all of equal worth in terms of all being human and all deserving of a vote and education and rights and so on. But, we do have different strengths and different skills and aptitude and knowledge and it makes sense to me to accept this and embrace it into our lives. If I speak French and my husband doesn't (I speak it incredibly badly but at least I speak it, whereas he knows less than 10 words) he is going to leave the communicating with French speaking people to me. It is, after all, our best chance of getting fed in a little French town where no English is spoken. Whereas, I am going to leave the details of purchasing a major asset to him. It would be ludicrous to suggest I could do that better than him because he has skills and experience that I do not.
It is very challenging to some people, this sense that we should relax a bit about 'equality' and it has so many pitfalls in terms of being mismanaged that it seems almost too dangerous to go to that sort of thought. And yet, people are going to that sort of thought more and more. Because, if we don't, how else are we to explore engaging experiences with our partners?
I guess all I can really say for sure is that I got a whole lot happier and fulfilled when I gave up the notion of equality for the idea of equal, but different and accepted myself for the very feminine damsel that I am. I got happier when I wholly embraced my strong desire to be taken; dominated; held down; even mind fucked (well, especially 'mind fucked', actually).
In the same way, perhaps there are men out there hoping against hope that their women will express their desire to take the reins. We are all very different and varied as to how we tick and that is, surely, a very good thing.
Of course, it is clear that I have come at this from the point of view that I am the one happy to be led. I don't want to be the boss. I think that is clear. Yet, I do do some things better than my husband. For example, I am better with routine and order on a day by day and every day and every year basis. I take responsibility for establishing the routine for the children, for the meals, for the social calender, for present buying and putting out the garbage. On the whole, things that need to be done repetitively don't entice my husband and they are better left to me. He doesn't want to do them so it works for both of us. The only proviso I would note is that he doesn't waste time telling me if he doesn't like the way I happen to do one of those tasks. If he thinks I haven't stacked the dishwasher the best possible way, he tells me. If he thinks the dogs need washing, he tells me. Like that.
Of course, we are not in the majority here. A lot of men don't (want to) take the lead and even if they did, they don't necessariy have wives or girlfriends or partners that would agree to this. Most people have areas of disagreement and they sort that out the best way they can. Sometimes, the only way to sort that out is to agree never to see one another again. Or, they meet somewhere in the middle. Or, they both remain frustrated with one another. There are any number of outcomes for these power struggles.
I am in contact right now with a woman who is very interested in promoting women led relationships. She feels that power struggles may result in a couple agreeing that the woman should take the lead; that 'equality' is not the solution necessarily. She is thinking here of women who are particularly competent; perfectly capable of running the show and she wonders out loud about this. Are there not men who secretly would love to hand the reins over to their wives; to pay the bills; make the decisions, arrange the party and the annual holiday; even make the sexual advances??
For my husband and I it will always be a bit of a blend. He's happy not to be responsible for various decisions, so long as I decide things in a way that he would agree with, and that I consult him when I am not certain about that. He knows, for example, that I might buy a platter without consulting him because he trusts my taste. He knows that I will not buy an expensive work of art without him because that has always been a decision we have discussed together first.
When I look around at the marriages I know, it really does seem like a lot of men are happy for their wives to take the lead. Or, they are frightened of them. I have considered this theory quite carefully and I think for many men, this is the case.
But, putting aside the techicalities for a minute and just staying with the basic theory...this notion of all people being equal is a bit simplistic, don't you think? Of course, we are all of equal worth in terms of all being human and all deserving of a vote and education and rights and so on. But, we do have different strengths and different skills and aptitude and knowledge and it makes sense to me to accept this and embrace it into our lives. If I speak French and my husband doesn't (I speak it incredibly badly but at least I speak it, whereas he knows less than 10 words) he is going to leave the communicating with French speaking people to me. It is, after all, our best chance of getting fed in a little French town where no English is spoken. Whereas, I am going to leave the details of purchasing a major asset to him. It would be ludicrous to suggest I could do that better than him because he has skills and experience that I do not.
It is very challenging to some people, this sense that we should relax a bit about 'equality' and it has so many pitfalls in terms of being mismanaged that it seems almost too dangerous to go to that sort of thought. And yet, people are going to that sort of thought more and more. Because, if we don't, how else are we to explore engaging experiences with our partners?
I guess all I can really say for sure is that I got a whole lot happier and fulfilled when I gave up the notion of equality for the idea of equal, but different and accepted myself for the very feminine damsel that I am. I got happier when I wholly embraced my strong desire to be taken; dominated; held down; even mind fucked (well, especially 'mind fucked', actually).
In the same way, perhaps there are men out there hoping against hope that their women will express their desire to take the reins. We are all very different and varied as to how we tick and that is, surely, a very good thing.
Vesta,
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting way of looking at it. Over the years mouse has know many women who effectively manage their husbands. They decide everything and, although mouse could never be certain, consider their husbands inferior to them on many levels. Often, mouse wonders where is the balance? Are the men just happily emasculated?
The reality actually might be more simple. Men have been told for the past few decades that women are very capable, and it seems to mouse that some men are quite tired of bearing all the responsibility in a relationship. It seems these men gladly hand over the reins. But what's just as interesting, when those same men are put into positions where they must take control (like if their spouse becomes ill) they always rise to the occasion. Also, there's been a significant shift in the ways boys are dealt with as children, which might also be an influence.
But just like the women of the late 1940s when their men returned from war, these men, when their crisis passed were not content as they seemed before.
Like you, however mouse is happy being cared for, controlled, protected and yes owned.
Hugs,
mouse
mouse: Thank you for your considered response. It is all so anecdotal really. Although, Bettina Arndt has written a new book called 'What Men Want' and it seems that the negotiation/begging/waiting/hoping for sex is a big, big complaint amongst men.
ReplyDeleteI don't see happy women or men on the whole, in terms of women being bossy towards their men in public. There does seem to be a lack of respect which is rather uncomfortable to be around for me. I don't know...perhaps they are just keeping the peace...
Sometimes, my husband jokes that he would be happy to be a kept man. I could write a book and he could put his feet up! But, even if I wrote a best seller and made my millions, I know it would not serve us well for the dynamic now in place between us to alter.
But, my most important point is that something drew two people together in the first place, presumably. If it is a true and honest union of two souls then honest communication should inevitably spring forth the natures of each participant. And, ultimately decisions should be made based on the needs of each person. If that did happen, there may be a shift in the dynamics that allows for best possible expression of the nature and needs of those two individuals, whatever that dynamic may be.
Very interesting. For me, the notion of being equal in worth while different in roles.. perhaps that's best way I can define what I consider healthy relationship. Defining those roles does require communication, trust, etc. No matter the dynamic.
ReplyDeleteK: Yes, I think that is a good equation for any relationship. I've spent years looking at it from my angle only really and now I am engaged in dialogue with a woman who is looking at it from a different direction and I am trying to get my head clear as to if the equation is transferable. And, I *think* your equation fits all situations.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking here right now of a couple I was told about in the UK. She made oodles of money and retired and is trying to be a full time Mum. Her stay at home husband seems resentful of her success whilst still enjoying the spoils and in his mind blames her for the fact he has done very little with his life. They appear to be having trouble defining their roles, establishing healthy communication channels and trusting one another. I wonder if it would be better if they both acknowledged the truth about her: that she should be working and creating and it is perfectly all right to do so. There seems no easy answer in their case because I can't really define a role for him. When she puts money into his account apparently he blows it on fancy cars. I don't know...
Not sure if the classic BBC sitcom "Keeping Up Appearances" has touched your readership but the dynamic between the leading lady Hyacinth Bucket and her long suffering husband Richard is nothing new. There have always been relationships where the woman calls the shots regardless of society's expectations. The best relationships are those that play to the strengths of each partner, whatever they may be. The challenge is in recognising those strengths at the outset. Most don't, or perhaps feel unable to acknowledge them due to societal influences that suggest those strengths are undesirable.
ReplyDeleteTraditional roles of men and women, though rigid and doing terrible harm to some, did in my view encourage and channel the different strengths that are innate in men and women in general. As a result I believe society was on the whole better off.
I agree with mouse's observation that over recent decades the role of women has changed in society and I believe that has generally been for their good - they now have opportunities that my grandmother would not have imagined when she was a girl, though I think that advancing the cause of women has inevitably been at the expense of men and we are only recently waking up to the problems that result. Politicians now pander to the female vote but scoff at the idea of the male vote, advertisements frequently portray men as buffoons and role models for boys are precious few, if they exist at all. My dear wife will often observe, with dismay, that if one were to reverse the sexes in many radio advertisements, the ad would never be allowed to air due to cries of sexism. Boys, especially those from underprivileged backgrounds, do worst at school and subsequently have fewest opportunities upon entering the workplace, if they enter it at all.
I agree wholeheartedly with the notion of equal opportunities but from about 1980 through to the end of the century society unfortunately lost sight of the distinction between equality and similarity and started to treat men and women as though they are identical. We were told that the differences between the sexes was merely a difference in upbringing, disregarding the innate differences in the way we are wired. The influence of testosterone and estrogen was disregarded.
I'm delighted that this thinking is increasingly being seen as over simplistic and I revel in the "girliness" of my daughter and the "manliness" of my son which, I am happy to say, are being recognized and respected at their school and at home. They are forces of nature to be reckoned with and will, I hope, both be pillars of society and be allowed to play to their strengths in times to come.
Vesta and mouse, your observations are spot on. Great blog post. Warmest wishes,
RollyMo
RollyMo: Thank you for your thoughts. I really hoped this post would prompt some discussion. Your wife's observations are very apt. It has to be a standard adhered to for all or all credibility is lost.
ReplyDeleteI'm here in Australia and what it going on in North America may be different. In our schools, I see an effort being made to educate all children to their full potential and we have a good tertiary system with plenty of pathways. If you don't get a good ENTER score in year 12, all is not lost and you can go get a Diploma. If you commit and your marks are good, you can be accepted straight into the degree. I see lots of different subjects being offered at school to give all children an opportunity to be valued for their strengths. Boys at my son's school can do and be anything that they want, although they must conform to rules and demonstrate they deserve their place all the way through to the end. Some boys *are* asked to leave. I see plenty of respect for girls. My son does a drama workshop with girls with lots of pizazz and he loves that...but wonders why they have to scream so loud...
I'm thinking of a few different scenarios here...There's the British Queen. She's the VIP; let's face it. But, in her marriage Prince Phillip is the boss. I think she's pretty clear on that and always has been clear on that. And, she's always been a very girly girl. It's a rather nice role model, actually.
And, closer to home I'm thinking of my own daughter. Frankly and quite honestly, she's academically stronger than her boyfriend but she looks up to him like some sort of God. And, the girlfriend of one son is stronger academically than him but she also has great respect for him and what he can bring to the relationship. They definitely recognize one another's strengths. I think recognizing, accepting and embracing one another's strengths is the way to go whilst also knowing enough about yourself to understand the best dynamic for you. It's the "knowing enough about yourself" that according to one source is very rare. It is thought that only 10% of people explore their own mind in this way.
Vesta,
ReplyDeleteI have often thought that the word equality seems to have become skewed over the years. Equality does not mean the same, we are not clones it does for me mean that as human beings, as far as our life value is concerned we are of equality worth. My life is no more nor no less greater than Masters. With that said though I fully believe that there are major differences between the genders and as much as many disagree I genuinely feel that there are some things (in general mind you) that women do more efficiently than men and vice versa.
When it comes to the relationship I share with Master, I am by far more organised, orderly and efficient when it comes to maintaining the house, paying the bills, purchasing the grocery shopping, ensuring the home is tended to. I am also the person who is better at socializing, embracing others, making the phone calls, scheduling appointments, interviewing new doctors or dentists and the like. The reality is that I run the home we live in. I am the one in control of what happens; I am the one that ensures everything we need for survival takes place on a regular basis. Master however is the one who keeps me level headed; my emotions in check. When I am flustered or overwhelmed he is the calm one, the one who brings a sense of peace into the home, emotional that is. He supports me and challenges anyone who comes in my way; he is the strong force when the chips are down.
I was raised in a home where my mum balanced the books, paid the bills, pretty much took care of everyone and everything. My father made more money than my mother and he was the one to go into the bush and shop the tree down but my mother would have if she had to. That was there exchange. My father was stronger and endured the cold better than my mother so he did the harsh outside jobs. It was an exchange, whether it was an equal one that I can not say - it certainly did not appear to be an equal distribution of chores (but that is for another topic). Still at the end of the day they did different tasks - equal in worth but different chores to tend to.
I honestly do not believe there is anything Master can do that I can not. There are things he does better, that he likes to do and the same goes for me. I choose to allow him to be the one in control; I choose to submit to him and he chooses to control me, to be the one in control.
Men and women are different. I do not strive to be the same, it would be pretty boring in my books if we were. We both know what we excel at and so our energy goes into that rather than trying to do everything individually.
I know I was a little sidetracked but I do see your point and I thank you for sharing it. :)
~a
goodgirl: Thanks for your comment. Of course, we all have the same worth; were all born equal but a relationships is an exchange between two (or more) people and that dynamic can be anything the two of us decide it to be really. Your comment is very timely as I just finished a conversation with a friend who quite coincidently said to me that people are too wrapped up with equality now and that it is interfering with good sense and good practice. She mentioned that women are expecting men to get up for baby feeds in the middle of the night when they are working full time jobs and have to go and function. She talked of parenting not being an equal experience because the bonding with the mother is very different than the bonding with the father and for a time, the bonding with the mother is the crucial factor in a child's development. She is, after all, the person with breasts full of milk. The woman speaking rose four children, was a science teacher, has a psychology degree, consults for corporations as to their culture problems. She is writing a book about Guilt and Consciousness. So, it was interesting to hear her perspective. Perhaps, this demanding of 'equality' may have gone too far in one direction.
ReplyDeleteIt is this enormous generosity of spirit, I believe...this great ability to love that allows us to negotiate with another human being as to how we will live day by day; what limitations we will impose on one another and so forth. It is when we don't feel or can't give adequate love that things run awry.
For example, my husband does monitor my emotions too but not necessarily because he brings calm into the house. I monitor my emotions and by doing so enable a calm household! As a woman and mother my love is the gift that keeps on giving. In return, he loves me that I can give this love so freely. I have been known to say, "I am *not* Mary Magdalen!" because it feels this way; that people do want a lot; a lot of me. But, perhaps I ask a lot of them in return...
I've been sitting here thinking about your words..."I choose to allow him to be the one in control; I choose to submit to him and he choose to control me, to be the one in control."...I think this is what human beings do quite instinctively, for better or worse. We let go of some control over our own decisions/our own lives to satisfy the other. We hope that in return they will be generous with us.
But, a thought...do you choose that or do you crave that? need that? would struggle to live completely without that? Do I *choose* to allow my husband to keep my emotions under control or do I determine to self soothe often as my gift to the relationship - that he expects so much of me/to be so ethereal?? I don't have the answer.
But, ya know, for every success story there are probably many more failures/many more unhappy unions where people are deeply furstrated/where they don't get to a place where they feel complete within that union.
I find myself returning to the notion that we may benefit by acknowledging and wholly embracing our differences - a man, a woman, an organized person, a disorganized person, a person who wants to feel contained, a person who wants to contain - and feeling that the more we explore our own minds and the more we show some ability to bend, to strengthen our minds and know our own needs, the more complete our human experience will be.
Vesta:
ReplyDeleteTo your comment about the role of the father in caring for infants: this is a complex issue in modern western society, where extended families are generally unlikely to live together under the same roof or even in the same neighborhood. It is very hard on the new mother to shoulder the burden alone and yet mothers are often left in this position with only brief periods of respite, which helps neither mother nor infant. My dear wife had long and a traumatic labour with our first born that left her exhausted and suffering from a mild form of post traumatic stress disorder (this was formally diagnosed). She was also a sufferer of post natal depression. For the first six months of his life she did not bond with our son and felt terribly lost and guilty, despite all the care she received from family, friends, the healthcare system and me. At that time we lived over a hour's drive from the nearest relative and, while they were keen to help, there was a recognition that assistance could not always be at hand. So I worked a regular work week and also regularly cared for our boy (bottle fed him, burped him, changed his diapers, played with him, comforted him, soothed him to sleep) when I was home. I did so gladly but really I had to, there was no other alternative. I kept going until my wife was well enough to take over. It was tough but I learned a great deal and look back on those times with great pleasure and pride. The bond that was established between my son and me is huge and survives to this day.
I write all of this not to elicit sympathy or praise but to illustrate that whatever the expectations of society every case is unique and, as mentioned by mouse and goodgirl, when needed we can step into each others roles and do a remarkable job, learning that we have abilities that perhaps we never imagined, and we inevitably grow as a result.
RollyMo: It is great that you were able to offer so much support at that time. I had a bout of post natal depression myself after my last child stopping breast feeding overnight. It is a scary place to be and one limps along until the fog clears and does the best one can.
ReplyDeleteMy friend was, of course, talking generally if that was what prompted this response. Babies need a lot of care and allowing the mother as much time as possible with her newborn would seem the best case scenario. Mothers often seem to feel obliged to return to work after a month or two and that really is pushing the bonding process, in my opinion.
Vesta,
ReplyDeleteTo begin, my apologies for so many grammatical/typing errors in my previous response. I was a little sleepy when I shared it and just re-read it now and goodness, it was a mess.
As for your question, "do you choose that or do you crave that? need that? would struggle to live completely without that" ? I am not certain I crave it. What I am certain about is that I crave a harmonious relationship and this exchange allows for that. I appreciate the relationship I have with Master and I definitely am a person who has submissive desires. With that said though there are times when I absolutely loathe the control I have given up because I want to do something and am not permitted to. These feelings are fleeting mind you and tend to occur when I am feeling a lack of internal control and am desperate to feel a sense of power over myself. I have only ever experienced relationships that involved a power exchange and for the most part I believe they do make life less complicated. Knowing Master is in control, knowing he has the final say stops any useless bickering about who picks the movie or where we will dine that night and so on and so forth. I also really like that we know our roles, that I tend to my duties and he to his and things get done with little fuss. Of course there are moments when I think "lordy can you not just clean up after yourself or make your own meal for once" but again, those are few and far between and at the end of the day I made the decision to be in this relationship and staying together through thick and thin is what makes it work.
I will forever be grateful for the women and men who fought long and hard for the female gender to be accepted as an equal. I am greatly appreciative for the freedoms I have today and would not want that to change. I think what has happened through the years though is the shift of equality to "needing to be better" than the opposite sex and instead just embracing our differences, accepting them and enjoying that we are different, we have different skill sets and talents and that is okay.
This was an excellent entry Vesta!
~a
goodgirl: Well, this is where the psychologists try to lend a hand and teach how to ask nicely:
ReplyDelete"You know, darling, I really appreciated how you agreed to take down the garbage last night. But, you didn't actually take it down. And, when that happens it makes me rather cross (read: infuriated) coz now we have no more room for this week's garbage. So, next time, I would really appreciate it if you didn't say you were going to do it, if you didn't intend to do that, coz I'd rather just take it down myself and get rid of the garbage. Do you think we could agree on that? Thank you so much."
Sometimes, I just want to say:"F**k. pleeeeese don't tell me you didn't take down the garbage!!!!!"
I *try* to be Mary Magdalen. I am *not* Mary Magdalen and I am going to lose my temper every now and then. But, that just makes me human, I think. The D/s relationship is a great model for those who fit the model but it doesn't stop the odd bout of humanness!!
Love you!!
On the subject of equality, or the difference between the sexes, this article in The Telegraph the other day made me chuckle:
ReplyDeletehttp://telegraph.co.uk/relationships/9033438/In-the-battle-of-the-sexes-the-Tarzan-tendency-is-not-solely-to-blame.html