I now have a great sense of compassion towards the feature writer. Imagine for a moment a person sitting amongst a high pile of notes and material trying to sift them down to the essence of the story, one lead following another until she feels she should not be a writing a 3,000 word article at all but instead, a book. A conversation with one person leads to a conversation with the next person and in the end she feels she is on a long road with no end and no way to turn back.
The conversations and discussions here tell of couples who have chosen a dynamic where the male is the top and the female, the bottom. We've chosen this, worked on this and refined this to make it the best possible outcome for us based on our natures, sexuality, needs and wants.
But, I now understand much better that there are D/s couples out there - many of them - who also want this dynamic but they choose for the female to be the top and the male to be the bottom. The male wants and needs to submit to the woman.
My discussion with someone well in the know assured me that there are a great many men who want to give control to the woman in their life; to still have a womanly woman but for her to wear the pants. Some men literally want this and enjoy their girls wearing the pants whilst others merely want that euphorically speaking. They all want the dynamic; the loss of control.
Like us, this goes to the nature of the two people involved. This can be a difficult process of discovery. This can mean that one partner is caught on the hop trying to understand her husband and his declaration to her. They are the same stories as ours but in reverse and the percentage of the population that want this is higher than I could ever have imagined.
It is also the same story as it pertains to therapy. Just as my therapist was concerned about my "submissive bubble" and chose to show me ways to communicate to assert myself, so many men who see therapists are discouraged from exploring this side of themselves; probably being shown similar communication strategies as I.
So much of this is still under the carpet. So few professionals are willing to openly consider and discuss the notion that a power exchange runs at the heart of many people's wants; natures; life experiences.
If you can offer anything to this discussion. especially in terms of professional advice you have received, please don't hesitate to comment or send me an email. Thank you.
The conversations and discussions here tell of couples who have chosen a dynamic where the male is the top and the female, the bottom. We've chosen this, worked on this and refined this to make it the best possible outcome for us based on our natures, sexuality, needs and wants.
But, I now understand much better that there are D/s couples out there - many of them - who also want this dynamic but they choose for the female to be the top and the male to be the bottom. The male wants and needs to submit to the woman.
My discussion with someone well in the know assured me that there are a great many men who want to give control to the woman in their life; to still have a womanly woman but for her to wear the pants. Some men literally want this and enjoy their girls wearing the pants whilst others merely want that euphorically speaking. They all want the dynamic; the loss of control.
Like us, this goes to the nature of the two people involved. This can be a difficult process of discovery. This can mean that one partner is caught on the hop trying to understand her husband and his declaration to her. They are the same stories as ours but in reverse and the percentage of the population that want this is higher than I could ever have imagined.
It is also the same story as it pertains to therapy. Just as my therapist was concerned about my "submissive bubble" and chose to show me ways to communicate to assert myself, so many men who see therapists are discouraged from exploring this side of themselves; probably being shown similar communication strategies as I.
So much of this is still under the carpet. So few professionals are willing to openly consider and discuss the notion that a power exchange runs at the heart of many people's wants; natures; life experiences.
If you can offer anything to this discussion. especially in terms of professional advice you have received, please don't hesitate to comment or send me an email. Thank you.
What a wonderful topic of discussion. Honestly, mouse's experience with therapy wasn't very productive...well, it was helpful when the main topic was abuse suffered with Alpha. When Omega came into the picture, the therapist was very against our relationship. It wasn't the speed we moved in, it was the power exchange relationship we had begun.
ReplyDeleteHugs,
mouse
mouse: I would guess that he/she saw a vulnerability in you and worried for you. I know my therapist felt that way. I think she was ok with the bedroom. It was when I expressed a desire for the power exchange beyond that where she felt worried. I wonder if it is covered in their training and if not, they need to steer people back to areas where they feel competent...?
ReplyDeleteVesta,
ReplyDeleteWhen I first learned that there were other people in the world who liked to give up control, I was thrilled. I wanted to spend a great deal of time getting to know them and through the years of meeting people I am discovering that more and more people have experienced abusive relationships. Due to the abuse that was expressed I myself was curious as to why anyone would want to enter a relationship based on D/s.
When I have counselled individuals and they have shared with me that they were abused by a spouse/partner and then they confided in me that they were seeking or just entering a new total power exchange relationship I too steered them away from that thinking, momentarily that is.
Professionally I do not believe it is healthy for a person to enter a D/s relationship, regardless of whether or not they identify as submissive or dominant, if they have been abused (or have abused) by a controlling partner. A person who has been abused must learn the proper tools to ensure he or she will take care of him/herself. It is imperative for the individual to feel confident in his/her decisions and to feel control over his/her life.
There appears to be a rather disturbing trend in the D/s, M/s, BDSM community (and again I really do not like that word - community) where many individuals use that exchange as a form of therapy. Like all relationships, whether they be one of D/s or not are better entered when a person is whole, strong, internally controlled and the self esteem is high and healthy.
When I have counselled individuals in a long standing relationship and they have suffered abuse in their past I still encourage said person to take a break from the exchange of control to help said person identify themselves; to learn what he or she truly wants and how to better help that person cope, work through and express him/herself so that everyone involved in on the same page and working towards a similar goal.
Abuse is prevalent in North America regardless of what type of relationship a person has; however, and I have no statistics I feel confident in believing that it might very well be even higher in D/s exchanges due to the very fact that giving of control is often the very core of said exchanges.
In order for someone to give control in a healthy manner, one first must have control within themselves; it falls under the same idea that in order to be loved by another one must love themselves first.
A exchange of control is only a positive one if at first the individual feels control within themselves.
~a
I've been through courses of counseling/therapy on three different occasions in my life. Each were courses of 10 - 12 sessions for different reasons. One was during a marriage break up, one was dealing with issues following the marriage break-up, the third was relationship therapy in an attempt to resurrect said marriage. All three were very different due to the counselor/client dynamic but successful in their own way. None specifically addressed power exchange issues but helped me learn about what makes me tick and what I need to be happy.
ReplyDeleteMy wife is also a trained therapist/counselor so I have some insight from the other chair, so to speak.
Like any other medical profession, the counselor brings their own opinion into the counseling relationship. They are trained to listen and reflect, but when it goes beyond that into tools and techniques to affect an outcome (such as Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) there is an assumption that the outcome is "better" mental health. How the therapist frames "better" is naturally influenced by their own perspective and the general bias of their profession, both of which are influenced by personal experience and societal norms. Take for example Body Dysmorphic Disorder, where the sufferer believes that a part of their body doesn't belong to them. The assumed outcome of therapy is to help the sufferer accept that their belief is wrong and to change their perspective. To take a therapeutic stance that the sufferer's perspective is right and to help the sufferer find strategies to amputate said appendage would be alien to the way therapists see their own bodies and against the hippocratic oath in their eyes, one would expect. Similarly relationships where one partner wishes to wrestle control from the other against their will would normally be seen as "unhealthy" by a caring profession. It's therefore not difficult to see why the idea of wanting someone else to take that control is not an outcome that would naturally present itself as ideal to the therapist. They also are trained to look out for symptoms of Stockholm Syndrome, where victims of abuse develop all the symptoms of loving their abuser. I think perhaps those whose desires run in conflict with societal norms expect too much in such situations.
Also bear in mind the very real possibility that many workers in mental health are drawn into that profession directly or indirectly due to issues/questions about their own mental health. So to solicit the help of a mental health professional is a little like asking Lady Gaga for advice on a hat for your daughter's wedding. They may be leaders in their field, but they are most likely opinionated and mildly eccentric themselves.
good girl and rollymo: Thank you so much for your very worthwhile contributions. I think your points are very valid. I know that when I entered therapy for 11 sessions (as it turned out) I did so because although I was very much attracted to the D/s style of relationship I felt I didn't have all the tools I needed to function optimally. It was quickly established that I tended to naturally give too much of myself away. I needed to establish boundaries around myself so that I felt that I wasn't being swallowed up by the needs of others. Interestingly, within that process we covered ways to exchange with others (not just my husband but my children and others) whereby I remained a giving person but also allowed myself time and energy for myself and my own pursuits.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, every person with a submissive nature has his or her own issues; that is, not necessarily mine. But, it certainly makes sense to me that time is required sometimes to get that straight. My husband could not be a more loving man and yet even I could see that I was drowning and needed that time out. It helped me a lot! And I would say the most important thing I learned was talking about/ asking for what I need; something that submissives tend to find very hard to do. That was the big, big lesson.
So, good girl I definitely see where you are coming from. And, RollyMo I can appreciate that "better mental health" is the goal and also that in therapy we must deal with the therapist and his or her issues as well. It made therapy challenging for me actually because I felt I had to deal with her issues regularly. I could see them come up and obstacles about her and her past would get in the way. At one point she asked if I would be willing to do a certain thing financially speaking and I said that it went against everything I believed about my marriage to my husband. We were clearly seeing my marriage through very different eyes. Eventually, she told me she was a feminist and I was challenging her way of seeing the world; that this was difficult for her. We tended to agree to disagree about certain things. Yet, I remain convinced that therapy was a very worthwhile thing to do.
No doubt there is a broad spectrum of people in power exchanges but it can only really flourish if people are individually strong. I suspect that is often not the case. It suddenly strikes me as deeply challenging for many people because they may not have that strong sense of self to take into a D/s realtionship.
Vesta,
ReplyDeleteI truly believe counselling can definitely help and from all you and I shared of your sessions it seemed to speak volumes for you and that, in the end, I think is the main purpose. I often think it is great for pretty much anyone to seek counselling, even if it is merely as a "refresher" to regroup oneself and learn about oneself. What a person gets from the experience is individual and sometimes it does help and other times the relationship between therapist and client does not match and that can cause conflict.
As for what rollymo123 said, I feel slighted by your statements, "So to solicit the help of a mental health professional is a little like asking Lady Gaga for advice on a hat for your daughter's wedding". Perhaps I am not fully understanding your sentiments; however, at the present time, to me, it comes off as condescending to the profession of psychology and psychiatry and somewhat insulting to those who have sought help in said fields.
I can not imagine a single profession where ones life and biases do not play a part. We are the sum of our parts and therefore everything we have lived through and experienced has helped to form our thoughts. Of course it is not always beneficial to share or elicit said beliefs when counselling another; however, there can be times when sharing a viewpoint with a client can help with the clients own growth.
Psychiatrists and psychologists are not perfect, we have flaws like everyone else and yes sometimes we do overstep by responding in ways that are biased. This does not mean though that what we say and what we have learned and and what we teach are dismissive, which from how I interpreted your last paragraph, is how you feel about said professions.
Therapy by all means does not work for everyone. Perhaps it is the wrong therapy or perhaps the client simply is unwilling to change, to grow, to even consider an alternative way of thinking. This does not mean that what a therapist says has no meaning or significance.
~a
goodgirl: I will leave it to RollyMo to respond, if he wishes, but I am reminded of two things here:
ReplyDeleteIn journalism studies a lot of the emphasis has been that whilst a journalist is meant to be balanced and impartial and objective, it is really an impossible feat. I think that goes for psychology. You bring yourself to the table and when you do you bring all the constructs and belief systems of your life. Knowing that, you acknowledge it and make use of the knowledge and training of the therapist. At least, that is what I did.
Secondly, I saw a clip of the famous US therapist (can't get her name...) and she said that if a sadist came to her for therapy she would pass him on to a more suitable therapist because she can't deal with that. My therapist also said she often finds she is incompatible with someone and refers them on. I think the personalities of the two people come into it and that's just life. We are all only human. But, perhaps the client can forget this and the fact that some challenge is what it is all about anyway.
Goodgirl: I meant no slight. As you will have read from my comments I have undergone three successful courses of therapy and am married to a qualified and experienced mental health professional whose vocation, incidentally, I admire and respect. I do not need to defend the final paragraph but I will clarify: it illustrates (in colour, but my goodness life needs some at times) that in whatever walk of life, if you go to a subject matter expert you'll always get an opinion that carries inherent bias and flaws and may not suit your taste. The mental health profession is no different. That's human nature.
ReplyDeleteVesta,
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree with the fact that sometimes a counsellor is best to refer the client to another person. I too have done this simply because I know my own personal beliefs will come into play and that is not professional. I also think that it is okay for therapist and client to not agree on everything and from my experience rarely do I speak and give my input, I allow the client to find the answers him/herself and there have been many times I have disagreed with what a client has decided but it is their choice, not mine and everyone must live their own lives.
Therapy is certainly individual and we are all flawed and have our own "baggage" so to speak. It is how we separate our beliefs from the subject at hand that matters most, to me at least. :)
~a
rollymo123,
ReplyDeleteI was not asking for you to defend your last paragraph, merely sharing that for at least one reader it came across as condescending. We all have our own feelings towards subjects, I believe in this case I will simply nod your way and accept we view things differently.
~a
Goodgirl:
ReplyDeleteI would be interested to understand better what you felt was so irksome about the point and to explain why I see the parallel as appropriate but I'm aware this is not the right platform to continue that discussion. If you're motivated to contact me via email, Vesta has my coordinates. If not, I will shrug and move on; it was an off-the-cuff remark which has become as a distraction in an otherwise excellent trade of perspectives.